Lessons from History’s Greatest Leaders & Conquerors | Ben Wilson

Summary · 5 min read instead of 1 h 11 m

Ben Wilson hosts How To Take Over The World, a solo history podcast he started in 2018 that studies conquerors, artists and entrepreneurs. He is a Latter-day Saint, a great-great-grandson of Brigham Young, and a father of four young children who is being treated for stage four cancer.

Wilson argues that great leaders, whether conquerors, artists or founders, share a few through lines: a clear vision, the ability to communicate it and the ability to focus, to which Senra adds obsession and evangelism. Both use examples such as Steve Jobs at NeXT and Apple, the Wright brothers, Joan of Arc and Arnold Schwarzenegger to argue that success comes from deciding what does not matter and committing with sincere belief. Wilson describes zeal, in Aristotle's sense, as the pain of seeing someone like you achieve what you have not, and says his podcast aims to help listeners find that person. The second half covers his diagnosis with stage four metastatic neuroendocrine carcinoma, his treatment with chemotherapy and tarlatamab, and his view that he has had a fortunate life he would choose again.

Minute by minute

1. 0:36

   Zeal is a kind of pain. Wilson says Aristotle defined zeal as pain felt on seeing someone like you achieve good things you could do but have not. He cites a 21-year-old Thomas Edison staying up all night reading a Michael Faraday biography and declaring "I am going to hustle." He sees the same pattern in Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great, and in John D. Rockefeller and Amos Lawrence.

2. 3:43

   Find the figure who resembles you. Wilson says zeal requires someone similar in character, so Leonardo da Vinci feels like an alien to him while Walt Disney resonates. He describes Disney as building "empires of the mind" around things that never existed, while da Vinci studied things as they are. He says he made his show's well-known intro music in GarageBand in about 60 minutes and could not repeat it for others.

3. 8:36

   Keep a waste book. Wilson praises Isaac Newton's habit of keeping a waste book for unrefined thoughts, saying it removes pressure and frees creativity. He keeps creative notebooks and, since his diagnosis, a detailed journal, and pulls insights from them into scripts. Senra adds Rick Rubin's account of Eminem filling hundreds of notebooks and using almost none of it; Wilson writes deliberately bad introductions to get started.

4. 11:22

   Tim Ferriss for dead people. Wilson says he started the show in 2018 after reading a Napoleon biography while listening to Tim Ferriss and wishing Ferriss could interview Napoleon. He searched for such a podcast, found none, and decided to be "Tim Ferriss for dead people." His first episode drew on Andrew Roberts' Napoleon biography, followed by Steve Jobs to show it was not only about conquerors.

5. 13:21

   Success comes from deciding what not to do. Wilson argues the most important realizations are negative ones. At NeXT, Jobs insisted on all five priorities, and the machine came out late, over budget and over-engineered. Back at Apple he shipped an iPod with less storage and fewer formats than rivals, betting only on easy access to music. He adds Elon Musk's Roadster, which went upmarket instead of chasing range and affordability.

6. 18:04

   The Wright brothers solved control first. Wilson says the Wright brothers won because Wilbur Wright saw lift as easy and control as the hard problem, after watching birds make constant micro adjustments. They spent years flying gliders in North Carolina, then added an engine. He says routines and opportunities force trade-offs, and quoting Jobs that "focus means saying no," he stopped producing other podcasts, including My First Million, and shut his agency.

7. 22:16

   Vision, communication and focus. Wilson names three through lines of great leaders across domains: vision, the ability to communicate it in some medium, and focus. He cites a Genghis Khan quote that without the vision of a goal a man cannot manage his own life, let alone others'. Senra explains Founders began after a 2012 Elon Musk interview in which Musk said he found mentors in biographies.

8. 26:19

   Achievers share odd traits. Wilson says Edison and Musk share personalities, harsh fathers, childhood doubts about their intelligence and even near-identical preacher ancestors who crossed the US-Canada border. He also notes many great figures are light eaters, including Napoleon, Jobs, Vladimir Putin and Joan of Arc. He argues skipping meals is a litmus test for obsession, which Senra adds as a fourth leadership trait.

9. 32:19

   Commitment makes you easy to help. Wilson rereads Arnold Schwarzenegger's Education of a Bodybuilder yearly because it was written mid-obsession, when Schwarzenegger was about 30. He says once Schwarzenegger stated his goal, people around him started helping, echoing a Goethe quote about commitment. Senra cites Spotify founder Daniel Ek telling him he is very easy to help, and his sticky note reading "insanely great products."

10. 37:04

    Clarity of vision beat Joan's handicaps. Wilson says Joan of Arc, a malnourished 15-year-old girl, led the French to success because she had one priority while the king and dukes had many. Senra cites a Paul Graham essay arguing determination predicts success more than intelligence. Wilson says Musk and Jobs were not the smartest people at their companies but were the most determined.

11. 41:27

    Relentless action and steady compounding. Wilson says his great-great-grandfather Brigham Young was a true believer and relentless though not especially smart. He cites a Strokes singer complaining that The Killers, fronted by teetotal Latter-day Saint Brandon Flowers, kept releasing albums. He compares early Christianity to Nike under Phil Knight, saying both grew about 50% a year for long periods without a single breakthrough.

12. 46:19

    Sincere belief drives great achievement. Wilson finds conquerors most interesting because he sees violence as the top hierarchy above art and commerce. He argues Napoleon treated destiny as his god and Jobs believed sincerely, while a double-minded French king who said "Paris is worth a mass" was no great conqueror. He cites Phil Knight in Shoe Dog: "Belief is irresistible." Senra adds evangelism as a fifth trait, citing Rockefeller.

13. 57:42

    Diagnosis of stage four cancer. Wilson says he had lost 40 pounds before a doctor found a mass in his liver; he had put off care until Claude told him to go in right away. He has stage four metastatic neuroendocrine carcinoma spread to his liver, lungs, spine and brain, with an initial prognosis of one year and a 0% five-year survival rate in the statistics he read. He says he tries to live as if he has one year and as if he has 20.

14. 1:02:02

    Treatment after chemotherapy. Wilson has finished chemotherapy and is starting tarlatamab, which extended small cell lung cancer survival by six months to a year and has worked for two years in some patients with his cancer type. A new study means insurance will now cover it. If it stops working, he would look at clinical trials for his SMARCA4 marker, and he is considering a custom mRNA vaccine to enhance it.

15. 1:06:38

    A fortunate life worth repeating. Wilson says studying history, such as teenage conscripts dying in Napoleon's wars, shows him he has had an amazing life with a wife, four kids and a calling he loves. He would choose this life again, though he admits to bad moments. He credits the Huntsman Cancer Institute, founded by billionaire John Huntsman, and asks listeners to also help others without his resources.

Published Oct 14, 2026.